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Boundless. Shows. Shows, shows.

Well, hey everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of The Boundless Show. This is Lisa Anderson here with you and, uh. Finishing out, close to finishing out May, I guess. And, uh, you know, folks, this is my favorite time of the year. If you wanna send me greetings, uh, please do, because I love it. I'm happy [00:01:00] to, uh, chat with you about why May and June are the best.

Alright. On another note, let me give you a little preview of what we have coming up on the show for our inbox. A listener is feeling emotionally drained, uh, because they're having a difficult time separating their work life from their personal life. What can they do to kind of get some peace, some structure back into their days?

One of our counselors is going to weigh in on that. And then for our culture segment, Jordan Rainer, we've had him on the show before. He is an expert on work and he's gonna talk about glorifying God in your work, specifically through the examples of five, what he calls mere Christians. And, uh, their short biographies will inspire you to live your faith well through the way you work.

And I'm not even gonna give you a preview of who we're gonna talk about. You have to listen in. Uh, so stay tuned for that. Alright, here we are for our round table. Oh my goodness. We are smack on the front end of, if not, I feel like now people are [00:02:00] just getting married at all weird times of the year and weird days of the week.

Yeah. Is anyone with me like, I've been to a wedding on Wednesday? More common? Yeah. Oh 

yeah. 

Yeah. Okay. We're gonna talk about wedding seasons, specifically navigating wedding season as a. Single person, a single adult. Um, because I think depending on who your friends are and kinda what subculture you're in and all this stuff, weddings can be either super chill or way off the chain.

A lot of expectations, a lot of hurt. Feelings. Let's just be honest. So we're gonna unpack it all here today. We're gonna name names, we're gonna throw people under the bus. We're gonna get crazy. I'm, I'm just here for it. Okay? So I definitely have some friends that I haven't confronted on this yet. So this is your day people, this is your day.

Alright, well let's talk about the present. We won't get into my past currently, but, um, weddings, anything coming up this year. Summer, anything you're looking forward to? What uh, what are those even attending or ones you'll be in? What does it look like for you? [00:03:00] 

Yeah, I've got two coming up here in the next.

A couple of months. Um, my youngest sister is getting married at the end of this month actually, and so we're excited about that. Um, and I am in the wedding, so I'm one of the bridesmaids. Okay. Um, but yeah, it's my youngest, the youngest of four, so the baby's getting married and then a friend of mine, um, here in Colorado Springs is getting married and I'm not.

Technically in her wedding, but she asked me to be kind of like the wedding day assistant. 

Oh yeah. Don't they all 

basically just like a running interference for everything that the bride doesn't need to deal with. Yeah. So I'm excited about that. 

That's awesome. And that's Megan, by the way. I didn't even introduce you guys.

Oh yeah, John. You'll hear John, you know his voice. There you go. You'll recognize. Dakota's back with us as well. Thanks for having me. So, absolutely. Dakota, you take it. What, what's your wedding scenario looking, shaping up 

to be? Wedding scenario? I think I have two coming up. 

Okay. 

And one's a summer, one and then, uh, it's in June.

Okay. So it's gonna be held at coming 

up soon? 

My church. Yep. And then [00:04:00] afterward, I think they're gonna host it at a park. I don't know for sure. So I should look at that invite again. Yes. But that looks fun. 

Oh my 

God. And I'll actually be in the background. So Lisa, this is my favorite. Part of being at this wedding as a single, it's gonna be fun to be behind the scenes running the broadcast audio for them and their family.

So I'll be recording that. So then they'll have that to take home as a memory, but Okay. You know, I don't have 

to, but not the park portion, 

not the Just 

the wedding. 

Yes, just the wedding. 

So, okay. 'cause I'm like this outdoor business that can go off the rails with sound and all that kind of 

stuff, so. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I do the just. The ceremony part. Okay. So I'm excited to do that. And then, you know, finding your seed and squeezing in the pews together. So it'll be nice to have a designated seat. Oh, 

that is 

good. Yeah. 

Yeah. It's lucky if there is at the reception, a three-legged race. We wanna hear about it. Okay.

Absolutely. Because I want this to be full on like park games and all kinds of crazy. So, John, how about you? 

I went to one back in March. Okay. And I've got another one coming up in mid-June. 

Okay. 

So I've kind of been on this train where. [00:05:00] One year it will be a heavy wedding year, like 2023. I went to five mm and I was invited to seven.

Wow. 

Wow. And part of the reason I couldn't go to the other two is 'cause literally one of them conflicted on one that I was already in on the same day. 

Okay. 

Um, but this year happens to be somewhat lighter. So yeah. Been to one, going to another one here very soon for some good friends of mine. 

Okay. That's good.

Cool. Yeah, I have an in, I'm trying to think, um, recently, I don't think I've been in one. I've attended a few and I have one coming up this summer. Um, but it is always nice when you can go and attend and not feel like you're gonna be schlepping bags mm-hmm. And boxes of stuff around. It's kind kind of nice, but, um, mm-hmm.

Yeah. Cool. Okay. I, I did get one. Pulled into one. This was not too long ago. Pulled in. Okay. I was invited to the wedding, but then it was kind of this, I, I chose not to be offended 'cause I was either second or third choice for reading scripture and I was kind of like, okay, so I wasn't first choice, so that's okay.

But you know, it was [00:06:00] kind of like, well Lisa, you can read and you can speak loudly, so just do it. So, yeah. But I was okay with it. Nice. You know, they, I wasn't super close to them so it was very nice to do that. But, alright. So. How do you feel about wedding season? Like what are your feelings around this? Do you feel like overall, even historically as you think back on it, do you feel like it often is awkward?

I, I feel like for me wedding season is like Christmas. It is the time when all the weirdo questions come out about like, when's it your turn and what's gonna happen and who, do you have anyone special and whatever. But do you feel like you're a little bit wallflower ish or that it is awkward or are you okay with it?

Oh, I dive head in, Lisa. I get so excited. Really? Okay. Yeah. I love weddings. I love serving, I love helping, seeing where I can help during the wedding. So I won't be a wallflower, but I will make it a point to, oh, does catering need help? Oh, they got it, but I'll, I'll help. And I'm like, over there trying to help do so then it's not awkward.

I'm not [00:07:00] getting those weird questions like, oh, it's it your turn. Yeah. Why is it taking so long? Like, yeah. You know, so I get really excited to jump in and, and the differences own the food, yo? Oh yeah. Oh man. I get so excited. Usually it's super good. Something I can't usually afford, so I'm chowing down on the Buffets or the Bill Joan burger bar.

But it's super fancy and so nice. It's been super cool. Okay. So I'm excited. That's 

pretty fun. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. I'm with you. I love wedding season. I just think it's so fun. Um, like finding a new outfit to wear. Mm-hmm. Or getting your nails done and stuff like that. So I am less helpful I think, than you are Dakota at weddings.

Like I just love being there. Mm-hmm. And for me, I love seeing the people that I don't get to see on a regular basis, whether it's. Friends from college or friends I used to work with or family that I don't get to see all the time. So I kind of treat it like a little bit of a reunion and, um. Yeah, I tend to be a little butterfly around everything and like seeing [00:08:00] everybody and trying to catch up with people.

So I love wedding season. It's a blast. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

That's good, John. 

I definitely enjoy it. I, as I've gotten older, I've learned to enjoy it more. Mm-hmm. Um, early twenties there was a bit of this mentality of, oh, when's it gonna be my turn? And now it's much more. Man, just go and have a good time. Mm-hmm.

Please, this is this. You're gonna live this moment one time. You might as well enjoy it. I do find that my level of enjoyment sometimes can be a little contingent upon how close I am to the couple. Mm-hmm. Sure. And maybe how committed they are to the Lord. So sometimes you go to weddings and you realize, man, yikes.

I'm, I'm really. Praying for them. Mm-hmm. I mean, for lack of a better term, it's just you realize that there's a lot of warning signs that maybe they're not surrounded by good community or they're not committed in their walk with Jesus. But if they, if they're really committed in their walk with Jesus and it's fun.

Yeah. 

There's, there's nothing more fun than that. That, that is so much fun. That's great. True. Yeah. 

What, um, so to that point, let's give a couple ideas 'cause I think this is helpful for people [00:09:00] who are engaged in planning a wedding and also just for. Single adults listening as they maximize their own time.

What are some things as you think it through that make a wedding especially fun and or comfortable for you as a single person? Because there are ones that could be super awkward or they're just not fun, or it's only. Prioritize, you know, I mean, has anyone been to a wedding where it's just like, dance with your significant other or mm-hmm.

Yeah. 

So don't do that, people, that's so rude. Mm-hmm. But, um, what, what has made a wedding for you as a single person, particularly fun or meaningful or just feeling safe even. 

So there was a group of ladies from my church, my home church that, and they were married and you know, they were probably closer to my mom's age than my age.

Mm-hmm. Um, but they were just the life of the party. Hmm. And so it was these married ladies that were dragging all of us girls onto the dance floor. Mm-hmm. And just, mm-hmm. Having a [00:10:00] great time, and the song that inevitably would come up at every reception was Dancing Queen. Oh yeah. By Haba. That's a fun one.

Yes, it's a blast. And those ladies would just rally all of us girls, whether we were married or single or not. Around the bride and we would just dance and sing at the top of our lungs to this song. And so I had some of those people that, like it was the married ladies that were just a blast out on the dance floor.

And so that made it, that just kind of broke down and like didn't matter if you had a significant other. I mean most of the time their husbands were sitting off chatting with themselves and laughing at us girls just having a great time. Mm-hmm. So that made it definitely more comfortable and just kind of.

Made the plane a little bit more even, I guess. Yeah, 

that's good. Yeah. Awesome. 

The dance floor is definitely, I concur. Yeah. It's pretty hard to beat the dance floor. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I love getting out and dancing. I actually got called out one time by a good friend of mine who's since [00:11:00] passed away. Um, he noticed that I was dancing only with a group of guys at this particular wedding.

We went to dear friends and he said, he said, man, kids, these days you guys is. The guys dancing with the guys and the girls dancing with the girls. You need to mix it up. Hmm. Very nice. And uh, the latest wedding I went to, I remembered his words. Mm-hmm. Um, it was almost like he was talking to me from heaven and I thought, okay, I didn't bring a date to this wedding, but I'm at least gonna get out and dance with some group of groups of girls.

And I'm glad I did because Good. Um, it his influence. Um, shout out to you Russ. I know you're listening from heaven. Um, I know. His influence definitely carried into that situation because, um, yeah, I needed to hear that. It was, I that was kind of a push you outta your comfort zone type of thing. 

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. That's good. Mm-hmm. That's good. So Dakota, obviously for you serving makes it more comfortable, 

but also the dance floor. Okay. Get out there and the Chacha slide as soon as that comes on. 

Oh, 

yep. I'm doing it. I'm doing all [00:12:00] that. Everybody clap your hands. That's my favorite part of that song, so. Yep.

What I want to know though, John or Megan. Mm-hmm. If you guys have favorite songs that when they play it, you're like, I'm, I will cruise through everyone. 

Oh, 

okay. To you have to get out there to the floor and, yeah. Dance. I'm curious because Chacha slide, I think I do rush out 

there. Mine is like the, well, whether the Cupid shuffle or the mm-hmm.

Like. Can I say the wobble hair? I don't know. They make some of a pop ones, I dunno. Okay. Like some of those. Yeah. 

Mine is Uptown Funk. 

Oh, that's, 

I really like that one. That's 

good. 

Okay. Yeah. Mine is any country line dance song. Oh, okay. That just, you know, you can just get out there to it. Usually it's like the oldies, I mean, not the oldies, but like.

The nineties, you know, the good old Garth Brooks and 

Oh yeah, there you go. 

Trisha Yearwood and those, those kind. But yeah, it's usually those country, country line dances that'll get me out there. 

That's 

fun. [00:13:00] Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think too, the reverse of that, like things that people don't do that I think are super helpful too.

Like I would say I've had some pretty. Awkward situations with the bouquet toss. Oh. Which I'm like, if they could just eliminate it, it would be so awesome. I feel like all these things that happen at receptions, and again, it's not about me, but can I make it about me for just a minute, you know? 'cause you're like in a conversation with someone and then it's like three minutes later.

Now let's all move over here for this. Or cake cutting and cake shoving in your face and garters and booking money. 

Dam. My, 

the 

dog. 

Oh, man. Yes, 

I know. Well, you can lose your salvation with that. That's kind. Okay. I don't, that's not okay. John's like, you will at some point, John, you'll go to a wedding. Um, but it's like, I actually got, I've told this on the show before, I actually got called out of the restroom by the DJ on the mic of like, we're waiting for Lisa for the bouquet toss, you know, and it's like, you know.

Obviously it was, at [00:14:00] this point I'm just like, this is gonna be a hard pass 'cause you got 14-year-old girls there diving for it and whatever, and I'm like, at some point you have to release your single friends from being part of these shenanigans. Yep. Yeah, I would just say, I don't know. Do you guys feel like there are other things that you either have been done or not been done that are bad or good for that reason?

I just recently, uh, a few years ago, uh, 2022, I'd say a friend hosted a wedding and it was themed. Mm-hmm. And this was really fun 'cause it was Star Wars themed. Oh my. So they walked out Oh my 

goodness. 

To the theme song with Dar Vader, getting them married. And I, at first I didn't dress up or anything. Yeah.

And I felt a little bit out of place. You wanted 

1. Yeah. 

And I was like, I should have dressed up. Everyone's carrying their lights. Saber and doing all sorts of stuff. It was, oh my word. It was, it was wild. And it was the first time. Yeah, it was, it was interesting. Wow. To say the least. 

Okay. We can't even get into the theology of that.

That would be another, that'll be another round [00:15:00] table at some point. Know. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. I will say another thing that has been super helpful for me as a single person is when. The bride and groom very thoughtfully orchestrate the reception. Like the tables? 

Yeah. Oh yes. 

Putting you with people, you know, putting you with people.

Maybe a couple of your friends, maybe not just having the singles table of sad people, um, you know, but really mixing it up and or thinking, A couple of my friends super creative, they were like, you don't know this person, but. You need to know this person. Just kind of making connections based on history or whatever I thought was really cool.

Yeah. I don't know. Any other ideas 

I really like at the ceremony itself, you know, historically it was, are you on the bride side or are you the groom side? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I always felt a little weird about that. 'cause I'm like, well, I know and love. Both. Yeah. Like, do I have to pick? And so I've seen trends of like, don't pick a side.

Just pick a seat. Mm-hmm. Like, we're glad you're here. Those types of things. And so I think some of that where you're not forced [00:16:00] into picking sides, um, I really have appreciated that. And being able to just be there to celebrate both of them, whether I know them both really well or not, it's kind of nice to just, 

yeah.

Again, not have to pick sides. 

Yeah. That's cool. I do wanna circle back and talk a little bit about just like spiritually and emotionally, what it looks like for you guys to find joy. Because I think it is, especially as believers, you know, really for those, when we're going to weddings of fellow believers and we're witnessing a covenant and a sacrament mm-hmm.

I mean it really is it. Essentially a worship service. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, at its heart. And so I think it is something where we shouldn't allow ourselves to be grumpy and glum filled and all this kind of stuff because it is so much bigger than ourselves. Yeah. And it's bigger even than this couple. Now sometimes you have to fight for that because it is hard if you're in a really hard place emotionally.

I mean, I went to a wedding, you guys. The day after, the morning [00:17:00] after I went through a horrific breakup, like literally got dumped the night before. And so I had to fight for joy. And I think for me it's been very helpful to recognize that I can be. Joyful and I can celebrate another person and not feel like me celebrating them is taking something away from my own joy.

Yep. You know, I always say that like it's, it's not like the Lord is limited in like, because I gave this person a spouse. I don't have anyone for you. You know, he's not. Mm-hmm. He's not working with some kind of weird economy of like lesser than or whatever. So that's been really helpful to me. Um, are there other things, what does it look like for you guys to be joyful even in a hard, maybe a hard scenario?

I try to reminisce on Ecclesiastes three, one through eight. Mm-hmm. For every reason there's a season. 

Oh yeah. 

And having that mindset of like, this is a joyous time and I'm gonna go in with a great attitude. And that's sometimes hard, right? We're still human. Mm-hmm. We're still fallible. Mm-hmm. And so to muster [00:18:00] that up, and Lisa, thank you for sharing that.

Like to even muster up that the next morning. Mm-hmm. And get up the courage to show up. And then you probably had people there that are like, oh, what's going on? You know, and just, but. The reason I'm there is to celebrate these folks getting married. Mm-hmm. And get excited for them. Mm-hmm. And bring that to the table.

Mm-hmm. And so that verse really encourages me. Mm-hmm. And reminds me that the Lord has a. A season for each one of us, and the ups and downs are all planned out. So 

yeah, 

it's, yeah, it's not a surprise to the Lord. So giving any of those anxieties or fears back to the Lord. 

Yeah. 

And he'll just take care of it.

So it's really encouraging. 

I did, um, smear cake on the bride's wedding gown, just to be petty, but No, I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding. Just kidding. I didn't, so I'm trying to think if I've actually been to a wedding of someone I dated. You know, that's, I can't remember. I feel like I'd have to go back a little further for that, but yeah, I feel like it might have happened, you guys.

Maybe I blocked [00:19:00] it out, but it is hard, you know, there are different things. You might just be in a bad place. I don't know. What does it look like to fight for joy, you guys? 

I think, I mean, a lot of what you just said, Dakota, just kind of taking myself out of the equation and being like, all right. These are two people that I love.

Mm-hmm. 

Um, whether I know them both or not, essentially I know one of them. And so they're going to become people that I love. Mm-hmm. Um, and so kind of taking that off of me and. I'll just say like, I've only ever had one wedding where I've been able to take a date. I was dating a guy at the time and it was the worst.

Mm-hmm. Like, I just felt so uncomfortable. Not because of the relationship, but because you're always just thinking about, oh, is he okay? Is, is he meeting my friends? Mm-hmm. And like, is he getting along with my friends? Is he gonna dance? Or anything like that. And so. I've actually been really grateful not to have that person, um, at weddings because [00:20:00] then it's just mm-hmm.

It's just me and I can, I can kinda do my, do my own thing. But I agree with you, like taking, taking myself outta the equation and just really being able to celebrate the people in the couple, in that union that's happening that day. 

Yeah. I think you also, that's a great. Practical point. That's another thing I would give to the bride and groom is always factor into your budget, allowing a person to bring a plus one.

Mm. 

Mm-hmm. 

Because I've been to weddings where they just flat out are like single people. You can't bring anyone. Yeah. And that is just so. Rude. And it's like, yeah, because the single people are the ones who want, you know, who need someone else there. Maybe they don't know anyone else. And there are plenty of times where I'm fine going by myself.

Mm-hmm. 'cause I know everyone, it's not a big deal or whatever. But man, I've had like former coworkers and I'm like, I barely know the bride and groom, let alone, you know, all these other people here. Sure. Um, I don't know, I just think that's really kind when they make that point of doing that, so, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Something that's really helped [00:21:00] me is I've had a privilege a couple of times actually before the wedding of telling a couple, Hey, can I take you to dinner? 

Hmm mm-hmm. 

Just as a wedding present and can I pray for you guys? Yeah. Before you get started. And that really to y'all's point, takes my mind off of myself and is just a wonderful opportunity to say, Hey, if you guys need me, I wanna be here.

Mm-hmm. 

And that has been. Way more fulfilling than a lot of times where I'm kind of wondering does she like me? Mm-hmm. Um, when I see girls who I'm attracted to. Mm-hmm. And, um, just to be able to reach out and give Yeah. I mean, scripture's very clear. It's more blessed to give than to receive. And it is, it's one of the most fulfilling things to be able to reach out to the couple beforehand.

And, um, wedding registries are awesome. And boy, it is so fun to get a text from friends when you have given them something and they say, Hey, we got your gift in the mail. 

Yeah, 

so that reminds me, there's a few I actually need to give [00:22:00] pretty 

soon. Todo list. It reminded to self. Okay. So really quick as we finish out, everyone just give for those who are listening and they might just be like, oh, I've got these weddings, the expense.

Mm-hmm. The travel, the feeling awkward, the whatever. What's your just encouragement to them to think it through, to show up to be their best selves. Um, what does that look like? What's your advice? 

My advice is if you are traveling for a wedding, give yourself time. And by that I mean like I went to one of my dear friend's wedding last spring and I built in some extra time, um, so that it wasn't just this mad rush of like, okay, now I'm in town.

Now I've gotta get to the wedding. Yeah. Now we have the reception. Now I've gotta turn around and leave right away, but like giving myself that time. 'cause odds are if you're traveling somewhere. You likely know people that maybe aren't gonna be at the wedding or aren't going to be. So, like in my situation, it was a for a place that I used to [00:23:00] live and so I had friends that I knew I wanted to see but weren't necessarily gonna be at the wedding.

Yeah. So building in some extra buffer time to allow for kind of me time, um, was really refreshing. So, 

yeah. That's cool. That reminds me of, okay, so I'll tack onto that. I, um. Went to a friend's wedding, a close friend who was in another state, and I went out a day or two early and I helped her with some of the additional mm-hmm.

Wedding prep. Mm-hmm. Yep. And that made me feel good 'cause that was my time with her. So when the wedding came, I didn't have to be all glomming onto her. Like, this is our only time together. Exactly. You know, like she could actually enjoy her other guests. 'cause I had my time already and I could just be helpful.

Yeah, that was good. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Helpful. Awesome. 

I would, I would say for me, I've. Stretch myself a little thin with numerous weddings in a year. Mm-hmm. Or I am abroad, and they're like, oh, we're having wedding back in the States, so could you fly back? Mm-hmm. And fly back to whatever country I was in at the moment.

Yeah. 

So. Talking and having a [00:24:00] real conversation with the brighter groom. I had that a couple times. Like, Hey, I am so sorry. I'm out of town. I'm not able to make it back. Mm-hmm. But I'd love to get you guys a gift that maybe isn't on their registry. Mm-hmm. But something that would mean a lot to you both.

Mm-hmm. And having that conversation. So it's not a. It, I mean, it is a and or, uh, I can either come out or, but it's having that conversation beforehand so nobody's let down. Mm-hmm. And communication is high and that everyone is informed on what you're gonna do prior to the event. Mm-hmm. So it's not like you're just not showing up or you didn't Yeah.

Um, or is VP That's cool. So I would just recommend having that, those real conversations. Maybe not day before. Yeah. The wedding. Yeah. Their minds elsewhere, but yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Just having those, yeah. Cool. 

That's great. Yep. 

I would also say that, um, sometimes at weddings it is hard to have long conversations with people, especially the bride and groom.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it's good to go in with healthy expectations mm-hmm. And realize [00:25:00] that. Sometimes even just a quick, Hey, that was beautiful. I'm super happy for you. You can go a long way. Mm-hmm. And you most likely are not gonna be able to talk to the bride and groom very long unless you are in the wedding.

Mm-hmm. And you actually get to spend time with the bride or the groom. I. But, um, if you go with friends, try to have meaningful conversations. I have had some of the most hilarious conversations with friends. Mm-hmm. Um, at weddings or just observing other people who I have not met before as well. Yeah. So you can, there's, there's no doubt you can walk away with some great memories and some great entertainment.

Yeah. 

So good. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Great thoughts you guys. I am really looking forward to hearing all your stories after you returned from these weddings of what happened, what didn't happen. Yeah. What would you change? So good thoughts. Thanks. Awesome. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks Lisa. 

Thank you, Lisa.

You speak [00:26:00] into the madness and tell me I'm yours.

Tell me I'm. You my, you my calm, the chaos, my peace. You speak into the madness and tell me I am your only, you can satisfy my soul, you heartbeat.

You speak, singing you all. I need you all I need.[00:27:00] 

Alright folks, here we are for this week's culture segment. We. Have got our friend Jordan Rainer back. Um, I feel like anytime we talk about something that even sniffs of career or finding, calling, finding purpose, figuring out what you're doing from eight to five or whatever, at this point we have to call Jordan because he's always in all the things around this.

So Jordan, welcome back to the Boundless Show. 

Oh man, it is a joy to be back, Lisa. Thanks for having me. 

Well, this is perfect, and for those of you who don't know, many of you have heard the interviews that we've done with Jordan in the past, but he's an author, he's a speaker, uh, he's the executive chair of Threshold 360 and host of the Mere Christians podcast.

He also lives in Florida, which has me a little bit jelly except in August, but whatever. Um, we'll have to bring you back on [00:28:00] sometime just to talk about that maybe Jordan. That sounds fun. Um, but today we're gonna talk about, you have got a, a book, a profile. I love talking about biographies. I love it when we can delve into people's stories.

And you have a book that is titled Five Mere Christians Binge-Worthy Biographies that show you how to glorify God in your work. And I love this 'cause you have, um, I think it's five, right? Five individuals you've called out here. I literally knew of three of these. Um, so that sounds right. Yeah. Okay. So probably people know of about two or three maybe.

And uh, so it's fun. It's a good mix. It's not like, oh yeah, I totally would've known that, whatever. Yeah. So we wanna talk about, you know, using some of these stories, some principles around why you're saying that we really can glorify God in our work. Even if we're not in full-time Christian ministry. Okay?

Yeah. So all of you who are pastors and missionaries, whatever, uh, maybe you don't need to listen to this. I don't know. You [00:29:00] already just feel amazing. No, you don't. 'cause you've written to me and you said you don't. So listen in. Alright, well this is why we have Jordan here, so. Alright, so we want, the book is called Five Mere Christians.

First of all, just give us a little overview, Jordan, of what is the kind of common connecting link between all five of these. Why did you choose these folks in particular? 

Yeah, it's a great question. These five men and women were not pastors or donor supportive missionaries. They were what I call mere Christians like me, right?

And most of our listeners and these men and women worked as entrepreneurs and poets and novelists and TV personalities and civil rights activists. So that's number one. That's the number one connective tissue. They were not paid religious professionals. They were mere Christians. But number two, these men and women thought deeply.

About how to glorify God in their seemingly secular work. And then number three, they persevere till the end and they faith. All these believers are [00:30:00] dead now, right? They persevere till the end and they show us practically today, mm-hmm. As modern mere Christians, what it looks like to follow Jesus Monday through Friday.

That's why I picked them, because these stories, most biographies, the story is an end in and of itself. That's not how I wrote five Mere Christians. I am showing you these people as a guide to show you how you can glorify God in your own work today. And these five stories do it beautifully. 

Yeah. Well, I love, I wanna touch on, uh, one of your stories is Fred Rogers.

Yeah. Okay. So everyone, most everyone has watched Mr. Rogers neighborhood. What I love about his story is that. He tried to get into Christian, he was very much torn between, yeah, am I gonna do the best work by going to seminary by becoming a full-time Christian worker? All of that. And as we know, uh, he was pulled into tv, which like, how worse can you get, I guess, as far as [00:31:00] likeliness, you know, whatever.

So talk to us a little bit about that. 'cause this wrestling, uh, of, you know, traditional ministry versus getting into television. How did he reconcile that tension? 

Yeah. For eight years he didn't Okay. For eight years. He split the difference between the two. So he would go to work at TV station in the morning and then on his lunch break he would drive across town to Pittsburgh to his 10 seminary classes.

Hmm. Uh, and by the time he earned his degree, he knew that God was leading him to work in television. Right. Um, but he really wanted to be ordained by the Pittsburgh presbytery to do so. Because he really felt, he eventually came to realize like, oh, I'm not choosing ministry or work. My work is my ministry.

Right? Mm. But he wanted the presbytery to say that, right? And to bless him and ordain him for the work. Uh, but sadly, the presbytery refused. Uh, they refused to ordain him. They pushed him to pursue a career as a pastor because they could not see, uh, how. Fred's work as a mere Christian could be ministry, but [00:32:00] thankfully there was this one member of the presbytery who strongly disagreed.

And this Fred's, uh, friend by the name of Bill Barker. And so Bill Barker goes before the presbytery. We have a transcript of the meeting, and he said, quote, this is Barker talking on Fred's behalf to the rest of the presbytery. He says, look, here's an individual. Who has his pulpit proudly in front of a TV camera.

His congregation are little people from the ages of two or three, up to about seven or eight, and this is a whole congregation of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of kids. And this man has been as authentically called by the Lord as any of you guys sitting out there, end quote, and I could just imagine Bill Barker dropping the mic.

Walking out of the room and finally the presbytery caved. Yeah, they ordained Fred for the work of ministry and my favorite part of the story. Years later, bill Barker's on, uh, vacation in Scotland, and he stumbles upon this black and blue tartan pattern necktie that's traditionally worn by Presbyterian [00:33:00] clergy.

And so he buys two. He buys one for himself who was a religious professional and one for his friend Fred. And Fred loved it so much that he wore it all the time on the show to quote, give a subliminal message, end quote, that he was ministering on air even when he wasn't explicitly saying Jesus' name and that symbol, he loved the symbol so much, he asked to be buried in the tie.

To this day, six feet under Mr. Rogers is wearing this. Symbol to remind us that all work is all good. Work that contributes to human flourishing is ministry. If you need evidence of that, see the life of Fred Rogers. See the life of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who spent 80% of his adult life, not preaching sermons, but hammer.

Nails. And so, uh, man, and, and Fred, Fred deeply understood this, but he also deeply responded to it and integrated his faith in some beautiful ways, [00:34:00] uh, into the work. He's such a great example for us today. 

Yeah. Well, and what I really like, in addition to what you said about his story in particular is, first of all, he, he couldn't get the funding, like you said, no one wanted to fund him.

It was like, this sounds goofy. These are homemade puppets. This is weirdness. I mean, it seemed a little frivolous. You know, let's be honest. They finally give him 15 minutes and they're just like, okay, do what you can in 15 minutes. And the other thing I like about his story is he wasn't just, this wasn't a guy who was 20 years old and like, oh, okay, now I'm making it.

I mean, he had to walk, you know, the, the Fred Rogers that I know by the time in the seventies when this really got some steam, and I know it hit its peak in the eighties. I mean, he had to walk through some hard times and really kind of move ahead and do it in pieces. 

Oh, he failed by the world standards?

Yeah, quite a bit. So actually long before he was a celebrity in America, he was a celebrity in Canada. 

Okay. 

That's where the first version of Mr. Rogers [00:35:00] neighborhood 

happened. Now we're gonna hear from all the Canadians who are like we told you. So whatever we had, we 

told you. So Fred, ours. Yeah. And he had to give it.

Yeah, 

because his family missed Pittsburgh and so he walked away from his dream job with no prospects back in Pittsburgh. And when he came back home, they couldn't get a show made. They finally do the 15 minute version of Mr. Rogers neighborhood that you mentioned, Lisa, and then they ran out of funding a year in, and what was amazing was.

These super fan moms just went crazy when they heard that Mr. Rogers neighborhood was gonna get canceled. That they literally protested all over the country at these public access television studios. They would line up in Boston. There were 8,000 moms that lined up outside of the studio to beg for this television because even if they couldn't put language to it.

That what they were seeing through the TV screen was holiness. They could feel it, they could feel that there was something so distinct in the way that Fred was, um, loving their [00:36:00] kids as themselves through that television camera, that they had to have more of a, they were smelling the aroma of Christ coming through that TV camera.

So, man, he had to fight through a lot of hardships, years and years and years of professional struggles, even though his parents were. Filthy rich, right? Mm. That did not make it a shoo-in for his career, but he persevered in faith and God in his graciousness ended up blessing the work. Not because of Rogers' faithfulness, but because God is good, right?

Mm-hmm. And we're all better for it. 

Yeah. Well, another person that you highlight in the book who I guess I would maybe say. Moms perhaps wouldn't have initially been excited about because anyone who has stepped on one of these moms are like, oh, got me. Um, has been super frustrated. But Oli Christensen, the founder of Lego Yeah.

Is someone that you profile in this book and you open the chapter on Oli with a story of his shop burning in 1942. But then it's like, then I continue to read [00:37:00] and, oh no, let's have this burn two more times. Like, what? Why? Why did he not okay? Jordan? Anyone who is feeling, even if they're sensing the spirit, speaking to them, is gonna say, by the third burn, God is telling me to do something different.

So why in the world what is great about Ole? Why isn't he just a mad man who continued when he shouldn't have? 

I mean, for the record, he kind of is, right? 

Uh, yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, this story. This story is like almost too good to be true. The Lego factory in the first 20 years of Lego burnt down three times, and those fires weren't even close to Old Lake Kirk.

Christiansen's biggest trials. Nazi soldiers invaded his town and commandeered his home. They lived in the first floor, Christiansen's home, leaving Christiansen to risk his life, smuggling grenades to allied forces in Lego boxes. Mm-hmm. Boxes by the way. They couldn't afford because Lego was constantly crippled with debt.

Oh yeah. And as if bankruptcy and Nazis and fires weren't enough, this guy lost [00:38:00] his wife and daughter within days of each other. 

Hmm. 

Right. Um, after the loss of Christine and his daughter, he had a friend, uh, come visit him and check on him. And Christiansen said, to be honest, I've given up. I owe debts everywhere.

My wife is dead and I'm left with four children who depend on me. What am I supposed to do? I might as well pack it in right now. End quote. But instead of packing it in, Lisa Christensen leaned into the Lord in prayer in his journal. He describes this one night where he just lays himself prostrate out on the bedroom floor and cries out to God.

And what happened next was in his own words, quote, a miracle. He journaled. He said, quote, I experienced something remarkable. The prayer became a thanks and a blessing for me. I was given invisible help. It was as though my difficulties were taken from me. End quote. Now to be clear, he heard no promise from God that his circumstances were gonna get better.

Mm-hmm. Right? He had no idea that he would go on to build the most valuable [00:39:00] toy company of all time. In fact, at this time, Lego was still making wooden toys. The Lego brick wasn't even a thing. But here's the key. He sensed the invaluable, invisible help and presence of his Lord and Savior, and that's what got him off of the floor.

So he gets up the next morning. He goes downstairs, he gathers his family and his employees for a group photo in front of his recently burnt down workshop because he was determined to mark the moment he trusted that those trials were not the end of his story, but the start of an opportunity for God to be glorified.

And he points us to a really important takeaway, right? So as you know, Lisa, each of these biographies ends with some really practical takeaways for how we can glorify God today. Here's one of 'em. From, from O Lay's life, we, me Christians will glorify God. When we persevered through trials and faith, right?

This guy was a modern day job, right? He suffered more than I can imagine. And yet he consistently joined his Old Testament counterpart in saying, the Lord [00:40:00] gives the Lord take it the way blessed and be the name of the Lord. He believed that God is doing good to us even when it doesn't feel good to us.

And Lisa, this is way easier said than done. Um, and so to make this really practical for the listener and honestly. I'm going through this myself with a particular trial. If you are facing a trial right now and you have no idea how God could possibly use it for good, let me encourage you to do something.

Old Lake Kirk Christensen did journal about how God has used your past trials for good. Mm-hmm. Right? Because hindsight's 2020, I can't see how God's using this particular trial in my life for good. I can't imagine it. But if I look back 10 years ago. When my company failed, right, or when I felt burned by a business partner, whatever it is, and I could trace back 10 years, five years, whatever it is, of how God used that past trial for good.

It bolsters my faith and my confidence that even if I can't understand [00:41:00] how God is faithful. And he will use this. Romans 8 28 and 29 says, he will use all things for the good of those who love him and have been called according to his purpose. So if you are there right now, maybe you lost your job, maybe you're experiencing debt like Christiansen.

Look back at trials from 10 years ago, five years ago, eight years ago, whatever. And look at how God has used that for good today. And in faith, communicate your trust in the Lord that he's gonna do it again. 

Yeah. Well, and there's such, I mean, in that, in these stories and in this list, there is such diversity because I like and without, you know, I'm not gonna give everyone's name away because we're gonna offer this book at the end of this segment.

And so you're just gonna have to check it out and read these stories for yourself. But I mean, as you mentioned at the beginning, Jordan, we've got a poet. I mean, you've got a professor who basically just hung out, drank tea, and maybe a few alcoholic beverages and talked to friends and whatever. I mean, they seem, I'm, I'm thinking of the young adult, and I want you to give a [00:42:00] couple other examples of these lessons that you summarize some of these stories with.

Yeah. A couple that might be specifically applicable to a young adult listening who may say. Well, you know, I haven't even had a, a fire to shake things up or I haven't had my life and my calling and my job Jordan, are just lame and I don't feel like God is telling me anything about where to go or what to do.

What are a couple applicable lessons that might be gleaned from some of these folks? 

Yeah, I'll give you, I'll give you a couple. We'll stick with O Laker Christiansen and Fred Rogers. So from Olay, one of the big takeaways is that mere Christians glorify God by embracing play and work that the world deems useless.

Right O Laker. Christians have founded Lego in the Great Depression, and everybody told him he was absolutely out of his mind. Doug Olay. The world needs food, not play things. But here's the thing. Ole Kirk Christiansen deeply understood that the God of the Bible is a [00:43:00] God who plays. Who is joyful, frankly, more joyful than us.

Genesis two, it tells us that God made trees that were good for food and pleas into the eye. The new Jerusalem is lined with 5,600 miles of precious stones and gems. What's the purpose of 5,600 miles of gems? There is none, and that's the point because utility is not the primary reason for God's. Action.

And so if you're sitting there today, you're like, Jordan, I don't know. I'm, I'm creating the 50th flavor of dog food at my company. How can that matter to God? Or, I'm building a toy company or an app or, or may, man, I'm just entering data. And I just don't see any purpose in it. Listen to Psalm 37 23. The Lord directs the steps of the Godly and he delights in every detail of their lives.

It's not what you do that makes the work sacred. It's how you do it. And if you're doing the work in a godly way, it doesn't matter how meaningful it is by the world's [00:44:00] standards. If you're doing it in a godly way, that work is an ingredient into the eternal pleasure of God Christians and shows us that mere Christians glorify God by embracing play and useless and even mundane work.

I'll give you one more, Fred Rogers I, my big takeaway from Fred Rogers' life. Is that mere Christians glorify God by living at a pace that allows us to experience God's love. And extend God's love to other people. I could tell you dozens of stories that would blow your mind of how well the, one of the most famous people in America loved other people during the work.

I'll give just one short one. Fred's writing a script for Mr. Rogers neighborhood in his apartment in New York City, and he looks out the window and he sees a guy get mugged on the street. Fred puts down his pen. Walks outside, he's world famous. Everyone recognizes him. Fred walks across the street and hands the [00:45:00] victim, a hundred dollars bill, and he says, Hey, I just want you to know that God sees you and God loves you, gives him a hundred dollars bill, and walks away.

And I read stories like this and I'm like, who in the world does this? Like what celebrity on the planet would do this today? And here's the answer, Lisa. I've read every book that's ever been written about Fred's life, Fred. Was wildly productive. He accomplished more than any of us can ever imagine, and yet he spent more time alone with his heavenly Father than most of us will ever dare, and that was his secret.

He spent so much time in the morning during the workday at nighttime. Meditating, experiencing the love he had from the father through Jesus Christ that he couldn't help but pour it out on others. And that's the key. We've gotta live at a pace that allows us to remember and experience and enjoy God's delight in us as we do the [00:46:00] work day in day out.

So that. We're in a place where we can extend that love to those that we, uh, work and interact with. 

Hmm. Okay. So I didn't prepare you for this question. Great. And so you're gonna have to just do this off the cuff and dig deep here because this is gonna get a little personal when, when volume two of this book is written, whether you write it or someone else does, and Jordan Rainer is profiled as one of these guys.

What is, think on your own experience in, in career vocation, what God's had you do, the pivots you've made, whatever, what is a life lesson that you have learned? Yeah. Or that you're still learning, that you feel is something maybe unexpected that really has helped you lean into God more and helped you get some clarity as to what God has you doing?

Yeah, I think, I think my takeaway might read, um, mere Christians glorify God. By living with an uncommon [00:47:00] audacity. Hmm. That is rooted in God confidence rather than self-confidence. Hmm. Right. I take really big swings. In my life, I just signed a former president. Well, I can't say that I signed a really big executive as the executive producer on what Lord Willing to be in my first TV show.

That was a big swing. Um, I decided when I was in college that I thought I could get an internship at the White House, wildly arrogant, audacious, whatever you wanna call it. And I actually got it. Now, a lot of those swings I strike out on, but a lot of those swings I take and they hit. But here's the key.

Most people I know who set small goals for their life and their work are looking in a mirror at what they can do. It's all self-confidence, and when I look at Jesus and the gospels, he's constantly telling his followers to look out a window. Right. Not a mirror, but a window at God's power and what he is able to accomplish through us.

His willing servants. Paul says in Philippians two, it's not [00:48:00] us who's going to work tomorrow. It is God who works in you and through you to accomplish his purposes in the world. Do we believe that? Right. And I'm trying to baptize reader's Imaginations with this book and remind them that, Hey, listen, the exact same Holy Spirit.

That worked through the founder of Lego and Fred Rogers and CS Lewis and Fannie Lou Hamer and Hannah Moore, who abolished slavery now lives through you. Right? And we gotta set the biggest goals on the planet, not for fame and fortune. That's the worst thing that could happen to most of us. But for God's glory and the advancement of his kingdom.

In the present and I pray my kids, my readers will say that about me when I'm gone, that I glorify God by taking big swings that made him rather than me look great. 

Yeah. And I think that's such a great perspective. 'cause I think too often we think, you know, we hear all the adages of like, oh you gotta be, you know, humble, hungry, smart.

You gotta go out there and get it. [00:49:00] You gotta make sure you're in 12 leadership seminars every year. And do you know, and it's all this stuff. And sometimes, I mean, it might be someone is being called right now to a season of quiet faithfulness. Yes. Of just hanging in a job. That maybe is rough, but maybe God is teaching you something there.

Maybe there is a season coming up where you're gonna be asked to step out and do something, but I'm, I'm going back to the a hundred dollars bill. Who knows how that changed that person's trajectory, even that day. And again, when the sum of all these things is told, you know, in, in eternity, man, I think it's gonna be a great story.

So what a fun way to, to encapsulate this. Jordan, thank you so much for putting these to Penn and uh, for walking us through 'em and the lessons learned from 'em. It's pretty awesome. 

Yeah, my pleasure. By the way, I know you were gonna mention the book. Hey, I'd love to give something away for free. Okay. If that's okay.

Do 

to your listeners. 

Yeah. 

So, um, 

is it 

a 

timeshare because I need that. No, I'm it kidding. It's a timeshare. It's share. I knew it. I knew it. 

We are actually giving away the first of these five biographies in full for free. So [00:50:00] Fred Roger's story. You can get it at Jordan rainer.com/fred as an audiobook or an ebook that you can read on your Kindle.

It's not a pdf, it's a real ebook in Kindle or iBooks, whatever. You can download it for free right now at Jordan rainer.com/fred. 

Perfect. Okay. So folks do that and then you can also just poke around and learn more about Jordan while you're at it. Then come back to Boundless. And we are making Jordan's book, the entire book available to you for a gift of any amount to Boundless this week.

So, uh, if you go to boundless.org, search for nine. Three. That's this week's episode. You'll see the book cover there. It's very colorful. It is titled Mere Christians Binge-Worthy Biographies that show you how to glorify God in your work. And like I said, whatever you can afford a gift to boundless. So many of you already support us.

We will send a copy of Jordan's book to you as our thank you. For your gift so you can make that happen. And again, Jordan, thank you so much for being a guest today. 

Yeah, thank you Lisa. [00:51:00] 

These hands do nothing until you feet.

My heart is.

Life is nothing. You reached

my heart now.[00:52:00] 

Well friends here we are at the inbox portion of our show. We are going to answer one of your questions. Uh, you have the opportunity to write into us, whether that is at our email address [email protected], or you can hit us up in our dms on Instagram or on Facebook. Uh, you also can leave a voicemail if you go to our [email protected] slash podcast.

You will see, leave a voicemail, a little tab there, and you can voice your question to us, and it may be used on the show. So today's question, uh, we have got one of our fantastic counselors, Rob here. Hey, Rob. 

Hey Lisa. Good to see you. 

Thank you for bringing your expertise to the table to answer today's question.

And, uh, yeah, this is a good one. I mean, definitely young adults in our audience are going after personal growth and especially mental health and some of the things that are going on, uh, the challenges that they have. And so I'm just gonna read this question for you and let you take [00:53:00] a go at it. All right.

Our listener wants to know, I feel completely drained by everything going on in my life right now, and it's interfering with my work life. How do I have a clear emotional separation between my work and my personal life? 

Love the question. Wish I could sit with that person over their favorite coffee and just, you know, spend some time with 'em, but, but here we go.

The first thing is really understand the challenge of modern living. You're not alone. This is one of the craziest times I think, and it's only getting more and more difficult. So it is draining. And part of, you know, working this through is accepting the reality that I'm not making this up and I'm not the only one.

Now I want to introduce a concept of vocation because that's a really important thing and Christian thought. So it means that this is gonna be more than just work. Your work is a calling from God to serve others in whatever capacity. So as we move forward with that idea, the second point is to honor and practice [00:54:00] biblical foundations.

For rest and emotional health. So we see in Genesis, God resting, we see the Sabbath, you know, being encouraged, uh, even required, if you will. We see Jesus recognizing the rest, even in his own ministry, calling his disciples to come away by yourselves to a quiet place and rest. So I look at all of this and realize how much more as we're made in God's image we need to rest, and how sympathetic he is that he would give us this.

Directive instead of saying Work harder, right? And so then we have to set the, uh, boundaries within Christian vocation. So in other words, a God-given vocation doesn't mean that work should dominate every aspect of your life. You are okay in setting appropriate boundaries that honor God through your work and your rest.

Balancing that calling as you're serving others. With your need [00:55:00] for renewal. If you don't, you're gonna burn out and that's not gonna serve anyone well, the next thing would be to think about practical steps to create emotional separation. So in the workplace, identify your emotional triggers. What is really upsetting you?

What is triggering you to become down or angry or burned out, or whatever the case may be? And then think through, how can I create. Physical boundaries, and we don't create boundaries for others. We only create boundaries for ourselves. And you're working for someone else, so I know that has to be coordinated, et cetera.

But still find the physical boundaries that would be ideal for your circumstance, and then put some time around that. Put some time that will permit you to actually put those boundaries into place. And don't forget the importance of keeping the Sabbath rest. Keeping a part of your weekend free rather than, you know, just working, working, [00:56:00] working.

So these are the kind of things that I think about and we have God directing us, we have God modeling this for us. You can certainly do this in good faith and confidence. 

Yeah, such great ideas and just really practical again, 'cause I, I love how you emphasize the fact that this isn't intentional pursuit.

We're not gonna just naturally get rest and naturally get balance and prioritization, especially in today's. Culture. And so we have to make time for that. We have to make margin, we have to make, uh, really time for rest. 'cause to be at our best, we have to be able to have, have balance in that. And sometimes we need to get help in order to get that.

So Rob, thank you so much for weighing in on this. Such a great, you're welcome. Important topic and, and such great insight. Thanks again. 

My pleasure. 

Alright folks. Well that is it for this week's show. Like I said before I started talking to Rob, there are ways for you to get in touch with us, so please do ask us your question.

You can also go to boundless.org and search for questions that you may have that [00:57:00] we've answered in the past, and chances are you'll find some great insight there. Otherwise, I will see you around next week. I'm Lisa Anderson for the Boundless Show. 

The Boundless Show is a production of boundless.org from Focus on the Family.

Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others.

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